Who am I

Interviewee: Jane Mpologoma
Interviewer: Rolf Killius & Aisha Remtulla
Date: 28/03/2025
Address: Harlow at interviewee’s residence

SUMMARY
Jane Mpologoma, a nurse from Uganda, shared her journey from Ssunga to Greece and
Sweden. She discussed her father, King Edward Mutesa II, and her mother, Naomi Nazi
Nanyoga, highlighting her father’s role in Uganda’s independence and his subsequent exile.
Jane recounted her challenges as a refugee, her experiences with racism, and her transition to
Sweden and later the UK. She emphasized the importance of community support, her role as
a pastor, and her efforts to help the elderly. Jane stressed the need for understanding and
respect for migrants and refugees, and her ongoing healing process after losing her father.

OUTLINE
Jane Mpologoma’s Early Life and Family Background
 Jane Mpologoma introduces herself as Princess Jane Mpologoma from Uganda, born
in Ssunga, and mentions her mother, a nurse who started the Ssunga maternity center.
 Jane discusses her father, King Edward Mutesa II, and her mother, Naomi Nazi
Nanyoga, highlighting her father’s efforts to make Uganda independent and his
eventual overthrow by Doctor Obote.
 Jane describes her father’s escape to Burundi and exile in the UK, where he died
mysteriously.
 Jane mentions her prominent family and the Buganda kingdom’s contributions to
Uganda’s development, including her great-great grandfather’s role in inviting
Christians to Uganda.

Jane’s Move to Greece and Sweden
 Jane explains her move to Greece for a scholarship to study nursing, but she felt guilty
leaving her mother behind and decided to move to Sweden.
 She describes her initial visit to Sweden, where she fell in love with the country and
decided to stay.
 Rolf Killius asks about Jane’s ancestors, and she elaborates on her father’s role as the
first president of Uganda and her mother’s work as a nurse.
 Jane shares her childhood experiences, moving frequently due to her mother’s job
transfers, and the impact of her father’s overthrow on her family.
Jane’s Life in Exile and Cultural Adjustments
 Jane discusses the challenges of living in exile, feeling like a stranger in her own
country and the difficulty of maintaining connections with family and friends.
 She describes her experiences of racism in Greece and Sweden, including an incident
on a train in Sweden where a child tried to touch her with a tissue.
 Jane reflects on her identity and the process of adapting to new cultures, learning
languages, and cooking local foods.
 She emphasizes the importance of being proud of her heritage and the need for
understanding and respect among different cultures.
Jane’s Move to the UK and Reconnecting with Family
 Jane talks about her move to the UK, where she felt more connected due to her
father’s presence and the availability of Ugandan food and community.
 She mentions her brother, King Ronald Muenda Mtevi, and his efforts to lead the
kingdom, including organizing events to keep the community healthy.
 Jane describes her relationship with her father’s friends, particularly Major Calco, who
helped her understand her father’s life and legacy.
 She expresses her gratitude for the support she received from the Ugandan community
in the UK and her efforts to help elderly people and others in need.
Jane’s Faith and Community Work
 Jane shares her Christian faith and the importance of her upbringing in a Christian
family, which helped her through difficult times.
 She describes opening a fellowship where members gather to sing Christian songs and
share life experiences, similar to cell groups in South Korea.
 Jane discusses the challenges she faced, including anxiety and panic attacks, and how
her faith and community support helped her cope.
 She emphasizes the need for love and respect in treating migrants and prisoners, and
the importance of understanding the root causes of migration and conflict.
Jane’s Reflections on Healing and Forgiveness
 Jane reflects on her healing process, comparing it to medical treatment and
acknowledging the difficulty of healing from psychological wounds.
 She shares her belief that healing is a natural process and her efforts to understand and
support others going through similar struggles.
 Jane talks about the importance of forgiveness in overcoming anger and bitterness,
and her personal experience of forgiving those who caused her pain.
 She discusses the misconceptions about her father’s death and her belief that he did
not commit suicide, emphasizing the need for forgiveness and understanding.

FULL TRANSCRIPT
Jane Mpologoma 0:12
I’m Princess Jane Mpologoma, and I come from Uganda. And in Uganda, that’s where you
find Buganda kingdom. I was born in Uganda in a place called Ssunga. That’s where I was
born. My mother, my mother used to, she has now passed on, but she was a nurse, and she’s
one of those people who started the Ssunga maternity centre, and she kept on working for the
ministry until she passed on. I left the country. Like most of us, do we reach a point where we
I can’t use the word choose, but where we we have to leave the country, and that’s where,
that’s when I moved. I went to Greece with a scholarship to study more, and that’s where I
trained as a nurse in Greece. Then I didn’t want to stay in Greece because I felt when I was
growing up, because I lost my dad at a very early age, my mom was everything for me. She
was everything for me. And leaving her for the first time, far far away in Uganda, I always
felt guilty that I’ve left my mom, and she made sure that she calls me almost every week she
would call and check on me, and I was glad to talk to her, but every after that phone call, I
felt guilty that I was causing her pain. And I thought that, you know, after my after I finish
my studies, I’ll go back to to Uganda. But I was very wrong, because it was one thing after
the other. So that’s why I left Greece, because I felt really guilty. I don’t know, you know when you when things don’t go your way, as a refugee, you look for some, something or someone to blame. I don’t know why, but that’s what it is. So I never wanted to stay in Greece. That’s why I decided to move to Sweden.

Rolf Killius 3:16
Why Sweden?

Jane Mpologoma 3:18
I had a friend who lived in Sweden. It’s, I went to visit. It was just a a simple visit. I went to
visit Sweden, and when I arrived, I loved the country. I did love the country. So I stayed in
Sweden for for some time.

Rolf Killius 3:37
You mentioned already your father and your mother. Can you elaborate a bit on that? On your
ancestors?

Jane Mpologoma 3:44
My father was a King known as King Freddy, but he’s King Edward Intesa the Second. And
my mom, her name’s Naomi Nazi Nanyoga. Those were her names. And then my father,
because he always believed in the best of our country, and he wanted Uganda to be
independent. Well, Uganda, when he was a king, Uganda was still a British Protectorate, and
he decided he started negotiations around that. And then, when we received, when Uganda
received high independence in 1962 he became the first president of Uganda. He was in
power for some, for four years, and then after that, because he believed in Unity. He wanted
everyone to be, to unite, all tribes, to unite and be equal , if you like. And he picked a prime
minister from the northern part of Uganda. That’s where he picked his Prime Minister. And
then the prime minister, who is known as Doctor Obote, decided to overthrow him, and that’s
how he ended up. He escaped but because of he, because he was a trained soldier, he
managed really to fight and get out of the palace. And he escaped through Burundi. He
walked for days, days in the bush, hiding , well wishers helped him, you know, here and
there, from Burundi, he took a plane, and he ended up here in exile in this country and in UK,
and this is where he died.

Rolf Killius 5:55
Why did he come to the UK? Was he very close to the former colonial power?

Jane Mpologoma 6:00
Yes, yes, because he he was even trained here in the army, and he was captain of the
Canadian guards. He was a captain of the Canadian guards. So I think when he weighed all
options. When all options were weighed, I think you know this United Kingdom was the best
option for him. Ended up in in South Bermondsey, yeah, in a flat in South Bermondsey. But
he died mysteriously when he was still young. I come from a big family, a prominent family,
which Buganda kingdom is the strongest kingdom in Africa, which has been there for years
and years, and the kingdom itself has contributed a lot to the development of the country.
Since the days of my ancestors, my great, great grandfather – He’s the one responsible for
inviting Christians to bring the good news to Uganda. and also the places of worship, like
donating land and helping to build the first churches and the mosques and whatever so the
kingdom has been, You know, great in so many areas.

Rolf Killius 8:02
Do you remember anything from your time in Uganda? How old were you when you went
away?

Jane Mpologoma 8:10
I had it. I can’t say I had a good childhood, because my mom was there. It’s not easy when
you grow up without a father. It’s a big part of life which you grow up missing. But my mom
was there with me, and some family members also were there for me and who are wishers,

Rolf Killius 8:44
and where did you live? Did you live in this area around the palace?

Jane Mpologoma 8:51
Ah, my childhood was a bit interesting, because when your mother is a nurse, she used to get
transferred from one hospital to the other, and that’s why, that’s how I had the chance to see
different parts of Uganda of the country, because I used to move with my mom when she’s
transferred, then I had to change school, go with her into A new place, and then transferred
again. Then I changed school, but it was okay. It was like I was young. I think I was enjoying
seeing new places, meeting new people,

Rolf Killius 9:35
but it was quite I’m curious. She was a nurse, but at the same time she was the wife of the
king.

Jane Mpologoma 9:40
Yes, she was a nurse.

Yeah, that’s what it was. But she was also the wife of the king.

Yes, .

Rolf Killius 10:00
Because the king had so many different wives as well, or what was the situation? Maybe
describe a little bit the atmosphere there the court.

Jane Mpologoma 10:09
Yes, that’s what it was. He had different wives, and my mom was one of those wives. My
mother believed in working for the community. I think that was her major motivation of
training becoming a nurse. She believed in going out in the community, helping other people.

She was a very, very strong lady, active, very active. I don’t see her staying at home, just
waiting to to be given. And times had changed. When my father was overthrown, times has
had changed. So I think that was the best choice for her.

Rolf Killius 11:06
She was quite independent from your father, in a way, even before he died, before he got
expelled.

Jane Mpologoma 11:13
You could say that. Yes, you could say that.

Rolf Killius 11:18
maybe that’s also something which you took over the independence?

Jane Mpologoma 11:23
yeah, I took over that independence. And I also want to, I enjoy helping other people, being
there for those who who need help. Because as I was growing up, there were a lot of people
who stood with my mom. Just raised me up. They made life easy. It would have been very
difficult I believe. That made my life easy. I had everything I needed, even if my mum was
not in the position to provide there was only someone to stand with her.

Rolf Killius 12:08
And you were telling us earlier, you moved from Greece to Sweden. I think you are much
you are much happier there?

Jane Mpologoma 12:16
In Sweden I was much happier in Sweden, but there was that fact hanging over my head of
missing my mother. Yeah, she came to visit, like twice, but whenever she came, she never
wanted to stay long, because of her responsibilities back home. And you know, that’s the
tricky part of going into exile. That’s the trickiest part, because you keep on telling yourself,
next year, I’ll go back, then you just can’t make those ends meet honestly. Its before, you
know, it’s five years two, two years, three years, four, five. And then you start losing the
track. You know thing, when you go home to visit, for example, recent I was in Uganda, you
feel like a stranger in your own country, you feel like a stranger. You try to look for people
you knew you can’t find most of them. Some have died. Some have moved to other countries.
It’s kind of hard. You just find yourself in feeling you start feeling out of place, if you like.
And the funniest part of it, when I’m here, if I’m talking about Uganda, I’ll call, I call Uganda
my home, that when I go home, when I’m in Uganda, I’ll be saying when I go back home. So
I think life becomes stagnant. If you like, you feel like you are like someone living in a no
man’s land, which is very sad, in a way, very sad.

Rolf Killius 14:23
You know, we are calling this project, ‘Who am I’, which is, of course, about the identity.
How would you define yourself? You know, that goes in this direction, you know, yeah,
living in a no man’s land, that’s something interesting.

Jane Mpologoma 14:38
Who am I? I’m just Jane. Just call me Jane

Rolf Killius 14:38
You know in the background you were just explaining about Uganda, UK. You lived in
Greece and Sweden. How, how would you define yourself in a, a global way. If somebody
comes around and asks you, how do you feel like belonging to a certain culture

Jane Mpologoma 15:09
and between cultures? Because when you move to when I went to Greece, I had to learn the
language. I had to learn how to eat the food which I enjoyed so much. Greek food is
wonderful. I had to learn how to cook the food. And because you, when you move to a
foreign country, you’ll you start losing your identity slowly by slowly because you are busy
trying, trying to embrace a new a new culture, which you have to do. That’s a must, because

you need to do that. Yeah, and when I moved to Sweden, I had to start learning the language,
getting used to a new culture. Yeah, that’s what it is. But when I moved here, that’s when I
met

David, it was much easier. I did find it was easier to settle in here. Also, when you are a
foreigner in any country, you can’t

avoid, you know, facing racism, Ahh I’ve been called names. I remember, I remember I was
sitting on a train.

Just excuse me. I remember I was sitting on a train in Sweden, and there was a lady with her
daughter. She came with a she had a white tissue, and she she wanted to see

if my, was it that or something? And, you know, she’s just a young child who who, who is in
the family which is less, less informed, if you, if I can use such a statement, and she kept on
looking at the tissue, but the the tissue had no dirt on and the mother tried to stop her, but this
was an innocent child trying to find out what was what was happening. I really felt I was not
angry with the child, but I felt I felt bad. So what I did, I was going to Stockholm, but I got
off at the next stop. I didn’t work. She kept on looking at me. And it was winter, you know,
winter, we are all covered and what is happening. It made me feel bad for for a while, but
then I think that was a turning point. I really started feeling of proud of who I am. Yeah, I
started feeling proud of who I am. And I also remember, we do travel a lot to South Korea
because of the charity our our charity work. And the same thing happened when I went to
South Korea. We were on a bus going outside the capital, and we stopped somewhere. Then a
lady did the same thing that one didn’t affect me, because I had gone through it already, but
um, I’ve learned how to be proud of who I am. And I always tell people, when someone
comes to me complaining about racism or whatever, I just tell that person, just be black. Be
black and proud, because that’s who you are. You can’t change yourself. That’s who you are,
and we are all equal somehow by depends on how one chooses to approach that. Yes, and
also if people could understand that no one leaves his or her country willingly. You know, we
can call refugees economic refugees or whatever, but sure, it’s not a love song. Leaving your
country. It’s one of the hardest decisions one can make. It’s difficult because there is that thing
hanging over your head or your life, and you hope that maybe one day you’ll be able to go
back home.

Rolf Killius 20:16
Yeah, you mentioned you in Sweden, that you decided to leave. I think you met your
husband. How does it come? And then you came here?

Jane Mpologoma 20:25
Yeah, when I met David…

Rolf Killius 20:30
We’re talking about you.

Jane Mpologoma 20:32
When I met David, it was so interesting, because me and David went to the same school in
the primary school, yes,

and we didn’t know each other, so my mum used to pick me up from school, and most of the
time she would use the ambulance, and David used to make fun of me, one of the boys who
used to make fun of me. And you know, when we finished primary seven, p7 we went our
separate ways. We didn’t know each other, but then we met. When we met again, that’s when
I said, ‘You know, are you David?’ He said, ‘Yes’. and we became friends. That’s how it
started. We were friends for for for some time,

Rolf Killius 21:36
yeah, before, did you meet in Sweden?

Jane Mpologoma 21:38
In Sweden…when he had come, my brother, the king, asked him to come to arrange a
function in Sweden to help us arrange the King’s visit in Sweden. So he was a monk, those
people who came to to show us how, because we were inviting him for the first time, and
that’s when I asked him, ‘Are you David’ and he said,’Yes’, and that’s how, you know, we met
again. And yeah…

Rolf Killius 22:16
Why did you go to the UK?

Jane Mpologoma 22:20
We started discussing, I had, you know, I can learn a language very quick. And David had
bought his first house in England, in UK. So we started discussing, who is going to move
full, more full move. Then I came here for a visit, to see. I started coming to UK for visiting,
going, but staying for one week and going back. And things have changed in Sweden now
you can find the food from Africa, African food. But when I whenever I came to UK, it was
very simple for me to access those foods I missed most. Everything was here. Then I said, I
have moved to UK. And because my dad lived in this country and he died here, I felt more
connected, if you like, Yeah…

Rolf Killius 23:27
And you said it was also quite easy when you arrived here, the food is maybe one example.

Jane Mpologoma 23:33
Yeah, food is one example. The language, English, you know, English is our, my first should
I say my first language is Uganda. English is my like my second language. And I’ve got a lot
of relatives here, family members here, so that made life more comfortable. I had also my dad
‘s friends. I remember the one who who is late now Major Calco. He helped me so much
because I had a vague memory of my dad, because I never had a chance, really, to to be with
him, to go for those walks or hugs and but when I met Major Calco, he embraced me. He
liked me so much, and he used to invite me to his home in Bath, show me some of the
belongings my father left, and he told he, he’s the one who taught you know . He was telling
me all about my father, what he wanted, what was his best colour, what was his best food,
and all the things I wouldn’t have known. He was able to to tell me all those, and I thank him
so much. He was a big blessing in my life. He …you cannot heal. You can’t get over the death
of your dad. But if you don’t know much about him, then that makes life more more
complicated. But after him, you know, I would ask a lot of questions. I think I’ve got two
books I used to write a lot about, you know, I’m planning to turn what I wrote into a book
sometime next year, God willing, but I was able to understand who my father was, and that
helped me to start that healing process. When you lose a dad, you just learn how to live with
it. And if you didn’t have enough time with him, that makes life more complicated. Still up to
now when I walk, he would have been 90 years now plus. But when I walk past by a shop, I
always tell myself, if my dad was here, I would have bought him that shirt. When I make nice
meal, African meal, I say, Oh, if my dad was here, I would have taken s – ome food to him.
Or, yeah, I have a lot of siblings, but I will talk about my brother, who is the king now – King
Ronald Muwenda Mutebi II he is the reigning King now in Buganda, and he’s really leading
the kingdom well. Doing a great job. We are about to celebrate his his birthday, which is due,
and the theme for for the his birthday is ‘keeping healthy’. So he has arranged in different
places, treating people, giving them help they need, and so on.

Rolf Killius 27:22
Do you meet him often?

Jane Mpologoma 27:24
When I go to Uganda, I meet him and I go to Uganda,

Rolf Killius 27:30
that means you go often to Uganda, not

Jane Mpologoma 27:32
that often, but whenever I get a chance.

Aisha Remtulla 27:35
You said that coming to London, you didn’t feel like it had you resonated with it more. You
felt more connected to London. And you mentioned that that was to do with, you know, your
dad, having been here, the language might have been easier, things like that. Do you think
that London, being a multicultural society, also helped with that?

Jane Mpologoma 27:59
Yeah, it did help a lot. Because even when I remember when we went to buy some Ugandan
food called matoke, when I entered that shop in East London for a brief moment, I thought I
was in Uganda, because everyone was speaking the language I know. So that make it, made it
easier.

Rolf Killius 28:29
And do you have a lot of contacts, lot of acquaintances from Uganda here in the UK?

Jane Mpologoma 28:37

Of course! There are, there are so many organisations which help us, you know, meet and
also have put in, also a lot of energy going into the the society, standing with those who need
Help, especially the elderly. We’ve got a lot of elderly people living alone, you know, so we
try to reach there. And here is what you choose to do.

Rolf Killius 29:14
You will say, you try to help elderly people. You help other people. What? How does it work?
What context?

Jane Mpologoma 29:25
Hmmm…. just visiting, visiting, trying to identify their needs and connecting them to relevant
departments like social services or helping them, booking appointments to see doctors, and

Rolf Killius 29:49
you have the organisation facilitating this? Or is just a personal thing,

Jane Mpologoma 29:55
it’s a personal thing, and it’s a personal thing, and I enjoy doing what I’m doing. Yeah, it’s a
personal thing,

Rolf Killius 30:07
but you’re also a pastor in a church. Can you talk about that? You want?

Jane Mpologoma 30:13
Yeah…I did. I grew up in a my… in a Christian family. My mum always put God first. And I
think I don’t think I know that what I am because of God during those troubled times. And
you always believe that, you know, even though God is invisible, he’s always there for you
that help, that helped me a lot. And when I was growing up, there are some, you know,
churches which stood with me, paying my school fees and being there supporting my mum.
So church is a very important, important issue in my life. So I opened up a fellowship where
we gather on Sunday, and because it’s not very big, we get time to listen enjoy songs and

yeah, try to understand each other.

Rolf Killius 31:34
But its a group within the Christian Christian faith, belonging to it.

Jane Mpologoma 31:41
Yeah, Christian faith, yeah. So long as you’re Christian, we just sit together, you know? And
I ….. Before that fellowship started, we were about four or five people who had the same
experience. And we thought that, why don’t we just sit together on Sunday and just, you
know, sing Christian songs and and then we we met some missionaries who were coming
from South Korea. They invited us to go to South Korea. This is sometime back . We went
and visited. And when we saw, when we went to South Korea, in that church, we they have
what they call Self groups, just a group of people sitting together and go through life
experience and get to know other each other’s needs and ups and downs, uh, share
information. If someone is having like immigration issues, one of the fellowship members
could might be no a lawyer somewhere, or whatever. So that’s what it is, and that has helped
me to cope with my because what I’ve gone through. I’ve gone through a lot in life, and I
developed anxiety and panic attacks. So I feel more comfortable in a smaller place, if you
like. Yeah,

Rolf Killius 33:44
Did you ever feel threatened? You mentioned earlier, racism was an experience in your
journey in Sweden and in Greece. Did you ever encounter racism here in this country?

Jane Mpologoma 33:57
It’s everywhere. It’s everywhere, but you come to a point where that’s why I mentioned, I
mentioned earlier on that I learned how to be black and proud. When you are black and
proud, you stay on the good side of the law, make sure you respect the law of the land where
you are. Then you stop minding racism, because it’s everywhere. Even in Africa, there is
racism. When you go to India, you find racism where some people are considered less than
others. You know racism is everywhere. It depends on how you interpret it. It’s everywhere.
Everywhere you go, there is racism. For some reason. There are some people who choose to
be, excuse my language, narrow minded, and they choose to be racist, which doesn’t make
sense. She asked me, it doesn’t make sense at all. Why should you consider yourself above
someone? Me as a Christian, I will tell you that we are all created in the image of God, and

we are all God’s children, so none is above the other. We should just learn how to treat each
other with respect, love and unity.

Rolf Killius 35:32
You know, we have this colonial background. There’s also the saying , ‘We are here because
you were there’. So it’s this colonial background. What is your take on that? Is it important for
you?

Jane Mpologoma 35:53
I think if people want to be independent, then they should have that. If people feel that they
can stand on their own, they should be given the opportunity to do that. Because when you
are independent, that’s who you are, that’s your identity. Anyone who robs that off you, is not
fair. If you know, do I think colonialism will disappear? I don’t know. I don’t know, but those
few countries who have got who have had an opportunity to be independent like my, my my
motherland, Uganda. I think it’s a good thing, even though sometimes it gets it is it gets
misunderstood. But I think it’s a good thing when people are independent, decide, choose
what they want to do for their country, if the country can be governed well, being
independent is the best.

Rolf Killius 37:13
Yeah, maybe an outlook. What would you wish for the future?

Jane Mpologoma 37:17
My wish for the future is if people from all walks of you know, all walks of life, if migrants
can be treated with love and respect, if prisoners in prison can be treated right so that they can
and receive the help they need.

I think we just need to treat each other with love and respect

Rolf Killius 38:00
And you think also this is a kind of solution for nowadays problems in the world?

Jane Mpologoma 38:04
Umph….That’s a million dollar question! Solution to war. I don’t think there is any, unless it
goes back to treating each other with if you don’t want your children to die, why should you
kill other people’s children? If you don’t want your children to starve, why should you make
other children starve? Other people starve? If you don’t want to sleep outside in winter, why
should you think other people should? That’s all. We just need to search our hearts and try to
be normal people, and we can, we can

Aisha Remtulla 38:53
have you healed? There’s all the struggles that you’ve been through with your fellowship.
Have you healed?

Jane Mpologoma 38:59
No, but I’ve learned how to live. I’m trying to learn how to live with with it, healing. I’ve I
tried, I’ve tried. I’ve been trying to understand what healing means. You know, if you get a
cough, you can try the off counter syrup first. If it doesn’t work, the GP will give you an
antibiotic. You go for an x ray. They try to take your blood, try to find out what is happening,
and with a proper antibiotic, you will be you can heal. When it comes to the psychological
stuff, do they heal? I don’t know. How can I heal?

You know, I. I always miss my dad. Who can bring the healing on that ? Nobody. You know
the ups and downs we go, we go through in life, some of them we don’t.

I can’t even talk about it now during this interview, I can’t because they are so painful. They
go deep inside your heart, and you just try to be strong, sweep it under the carpet. But you
know, when you sweep something under the carpet, you know it’s there, yeah, but because
you are not seeing it all the time, there are moments when you don’t remember, but if you are
walking and you step on it, you will know that I swept something under the carpet. Maybe
healing will come. That’s a natural thing, isn’t it? It’s a natural thing which comes naturally.
But I thank God that it hasn’t made me bitter or what. Instead, it’s the the thing pushing me,
really, to understand when I come across someone who is going through difficulties, it helps
me to understand that it’s not a choice. You don’t choose, really, to become a refugee. You
don’t choose to be an orphan, you don’t choose to be poor, you don’t you don’t choose to be
sick, because some people are just being victimised because they have an illness, and they’ll
be victimised just because of that, you understand. But who can choose to be less fortunate?
No one. That’s my belief.

Rolf Killius 42:14
You know that you see the situation of you have a lot of migrations still going on, people
coming in boats. Do you see some parallels to your own experience of people coming in this
country, this way?

Jane Mpologoma 42:29
I think those responsible should look what the root cause, what is pushing these people? It’s a
big risk when a father puts his wife and six, seven children on a boat, which is which is not
safe, and most of the time during terrible weather, when the winds are so heavy and stuff,
Don’t you think it’s it, it goes beyond that, so called economic refugee, isn’t it deeper than
that? I think I honestly I don’t know, but the relevant departments would just look into people
individually and try to understand why it happens, and trying to look for a solution, if people,
if 100 people, 200 come from a country, run out from a country, sure, there must be a reason
why. Maybe those are the things we should be looked into. I think

Aisha Remtulla 43:46
You said earlier that we’re always looking for a reason, something to blame. There’s always
that innate feeling that we have. Have you found time to forgive?

Jane Mpologoma 43:57
I forgive because blaming causes anger, and an angry person, I think, is the saddest person on
this planet. You forgive and learn how to forget. The forgetting part is the most tricky to
forget, but you forgive. I’ve forgiven everybody who whatever happened. I forgive.

Rolf Killius 44:37
You know when you read the history books about the history of your own father. For
instance, he was supposedly people assumed that he was killed, actually in the end, rather
than having suicide. And in case this is true, would you have forgiven him or. The person
who killed him?

Jane Mpologoma 45:04
Yeah, I would have, and I did.

When people talk of suicide, there was no reason for my father to commit suicide? No, it’s
not true. He was such a loving, kind person who never lost hope of going back to his country
because those who were with him during his last days, his conversation, his conversation was
mainly about going back to Uganda, you understand? So there’s no way he would have
committed suicide, no way, but I do thank God that I’ve managed to forgive and I’m still
learning how to completely forget.